Making £5 million, Contemplating Suicide, Hosting Ayauhasca Ceremonies in Spain, Moving to a Tiny House in Bali
Story of Mark Spall
“The fish does not see the water that they are in.” - Mark Spall
Chapter 1 - Discovering Chocolate
It was a Thursday. You know why I like Thursdays ? Thursday is my podcast day. We have just recorded an amazing episode with Bec Mylonas, who talked about channeling divine, frequencies, 5D beings and I felt high AF just by listening to her story. After the podcast, we all went to my friend Tarush house to chill and talk more. Me, Anna, Bec and Tarush.
Tarush opened his fridge and offered to try a chocolate. It was something I haven’t had before, it wasn’t sweet, but still full of flavour - rich, dark, magic!
- “Where did you get it from ?” - I asked
- “I will hook you up!” - answered Tarush
What followed was an array of introductions that led me to Mark . I sent a WhatsApp to Mark, asking about his chocolate. We started chatting. What struck me about Mark from his first message was his curiosity and kindness. He was open to share about his life, and “oh boy” his life was full of events. He talked about being rich, being broke, wanting to die and finally finding his ground…
I could not stop reading his messages. His story was special! When I read stories like that, I get really excited! Something deep inside of me clicks and I feel convinced that the story has to be shared.
I texted:
- “You should come to my podcast”
- “Not sure, I am pretty introverted…” - Mark replied
“Damn it!” - I thought, I am loosing such an amazing opportunity…
It’s not the first time someone refuses (though it happens less and less), but what I learned is to give people space, and when they are ready - they will come back. I did not have to wait long.
- “Ok, lets do it tomorrow, or day after tomorrow, otherwise I might reconsider”
- “Wow!” - I got excited! It might actually happen!
Usually, I schedule my podcasts weeks ahead to have time to prepare and solidify my thoughts, but this was a chance I could not miss. I texted my friend Evan (who owns the recording studio I record in), and begged him to find a slot for me in one of the days suggested by Mark. Evan succumbed to my charm, and gave me a spot in 2 days.
So the journey began..
Chapter 2 - Meeting Mark
I remember vividly the day of the recording. You might think I did not sleep because of the excitement counting the hours, but in reality, I remember it because I was feeling awful - my nose was stuffy, I kept sneezing (you can hear it in the audio), on top of that I had a high fever. Deep inside I wanted to crawl under the blanket and just sleep for days, but the adrenaline rush of getting this story out kept me going.
It was time for the interview. I was sitting on a cushy studio sofa waiting for Mark to arrive. I got a text:
- I am outside.
The studio is located in the outskirts of Ubud (region in Bali), overlooking jungle and a rice fields. It is complex of Villas, built by my friend Evan, with a music studio located deep within the complex. When a guest arrives I need to walk a small flight of stairs, open the locked door and go to the parking lot to meet them. This 2 minute walk always makes me anxious. I rarely know my guests before meeting them. Thoughts rushed through my head: How does he look like ? Will we be able to connect ? Will he be willing to share details of his story ?
I finally reached the parking lot.
In front of me was a middle aged guy, with smooth skin, dressed in a Sarong ( which is a Balinese traditional fabric wrapped around the waist), with bare feet. Mark had just parked his scooter and was looking at me with a huge smile. He came to me and gave me a big hug. We walked into the studio. Mark was carrying a pretty big bag. He took out a glass jar out of his bag with brown powder in it.
- “This is a cacao, If you don’t mind I want to start with a short cacao ceremony, in honour of my wife Lynette.” - he proudly said
- “Of course” - I replied
I looked at Anna, she was filled with excitement!
We set down in the comfy studio chairs, put on our headphones, checked the sound and it began… Mark poured cacao into small cups, that he brought with him. We closed our eyes, and Mark said a short meditation prayer. I felt calm and peaceful.
Cacao once again was rich, smooth and delicious…
Chapter 3 - The Early Days
Mark started telling his story. His voice was gentle, he could easily narrate documentaries and keep people captivated for hours…
He is English, he has a rural upbringing, steady childhood. Growing up Mark did not know who he wanted to be, but he knew he wanted to earn more money than his Dad. There was so much honesty in his answer, it felt so natural.
Mark continued with his background.
He started his career as a programmer, and was selected in the very exclusive apprenticeship program. At some point in his apprenticeship, he noticed that in the company he worked for - IT contractors were the cool guys that go to the conferences. He wanted to be a part of this elite group.
At 26 he started working at a famous Reuters Bank as a system admin. Work was stressful! Mark shared a story if how at one point he wanted to join a gym, to get fit, but when doctor measured his blood pressure, he told him that he would not be able to join due to his health. This reminded me of my career in startups, when my stress levels were so high, I did not have time to eat.
For Mark, stress was getting unbearable, so he decided to quit Reuters and start a software consultancy.
“Finally he can go to conferences!” - I thought
I was curious of how did it went. Mark replied:
“In about 3 years we were making £3 million a year”
Chapter 4 - The Entrepreneurial Rise
His consultancy was growing rapidly, in around 2003 they had grown to about 60 staff members and a revenue of £5 million a year. At that point, the old pattern returned - Mark was tired and stressed out. Looking to bring new life and more fun to his work, Mark decided to merge with a competing company. He thought it would be fun!
“It turned out to be a curse… I was really unhappy” - he said with a bit of sadness in his voice
On top of this, Mark was struck with terrible news. His Dad had died.
“We weren’t close, but a lot of my success was trying to get his approval… It was a big re-evaluation when he died, a lot of things shifted.”
As it often happens, on the outside everything seemed great. Mark was making £500k a year in his personal income, he had a 7-bedroom house, his daughter was going to a private school, he had several luxury cars.
Mark recalls:
“I remember I bought this farmhouse, and doubled it in size just to make it bigger, than the house opposite.”
Mark also said a phrase that struck the chord:
“I was pacing around with a thought in my head: I could either be rich or happy.”
In his words, he thought that the business merger would level him up, but in reality it took everything away.
“Looking back I realized I had something very special happening in this business on my own, I should have not done this merger.”
Mark had a choice: does he carry out with the business and eventually sell it - or leave it ?
He left.
Chapter 5 - The Phobia Therapy
It was time to start over. It was a clean slate, where Mark could paint anything he wanted. At this time, he got into an NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming). He found a businesses coach, who he described as “a magician”, who could “access you through words” . Mark decided to dedicate a big part of his life to NLP, and join a master practitioner training. This, once again, changed the trajectory of his life. While studying NLP and learning with his coach, Mark had a big realization: “beliefs can motivate your actions”. This led to a new business idea - Phobia Therapy.
Once again - it went big!
Mark discovered an interesting model - he would have a money back guarantee if he could not cure the phobia. He offered his services in the range of £200 - £1,500. His success rate was over 90%.
“These were people who had debilitating phobias.” - Mark shared
He worked hard nailing the customer acquisition. He had google ads, a call center that handled incoming requests, spreadsheets to track everything. It seemed great, but while the setting was different, old patterns, were repeating.
Chapter 6 - The Downfall
As part of Mark’s Phobia Therapy work and working with an NLP coach, Mark realized that he did not want to be married anymore.
“Before the marital separation I did not have any debt.. when we separated I wanted to do the right thing … before I knew it I was £850k in debt.”
In 2009 the UK was hit by a mortgage crisis, and Mark was left with the mortgages he could not get out of, deep in debt.
“I think that was meant to be.. Having built an identity around a successful business person, and having all the bits and pieces - the nice suits, the cars and the house. Then very quickly I lost it all.”
Financial troubles, and stress got Mark in the dark place…
Chapter 7 - Contemplating Suicide
“It wasn’t really a practical side of things, it was an emotional side of things, and you know - suicide seemed like an easy way out.”
Mark was depressed. He felt no control over anything. I asked Mark:
- “There are many people who are struggling with this, you went through these thoughts, what advice can you give ?”
Mark suggests when you are depressed to write your thoughts down on paper.
“Nothing is worth death, life is a such a beautiful gift”
He described how he wrote down the smallest successes he had in his days. For example:
“One of the smallest successes would be packing lunch for my daughter that day.”
This process worked, in about 2 weeks he started to feel better.
The other advice Mark gave me is to share your thoughts with other people. He described how he shared his situation with his mom, and she supported him.
“The willingness to die, must be a turning point.”
Chapter 8 - The Long Way Up
After Mark felt a little better, he decided to focus on a charity work. He found charity that did water solutions in Africa. Mark dove right in, he built a website, he worked on their social media, organized their trips.
“I enjoyed that it wasn’t about me, I took myself out of equation.”
Even though he was still in debt, his life finally started to improve. Around this time Mark met Lynette. Love of his life.
As Mark describes it - with gentle female encouragement Lynette helped Mark to get back on track. They got an accountant and realized that his financial affairs were not as bad as they looked. The 7 bedroom house, that he thought was already repossessed, was not, so he paid a small instalment and was able to keep it. To make ends meet, Mark and Lynette rented out rooms in the house.
Meeting and hosting strangers, helped them to learn a very important quality about their family:
“As a family we have this quality, that we hold space really well.”
For the next 4-5 years Mark, Lynette, and their newborn daughter Livvie were sharing their house with, as Mark described it: “lost souls who were very lovely people”.
On the side Mark was determined to sell the 7-bedroom house at a full value, but due to some planning restrictions it wasn’t possible, so after 5 years he sold it anyways for relatively cheap.
“Lynette, was reminding me, the day we just drove away and it wasn’t our house anymore - the joy we had…Lynette thought she would live in the other house, that we bought after my separation… But I thought - we are moving away from England.”
Chapter 9 - Leaving England
“This is now a massive crisis, massive burning of Identity”.
While deciding what to do, Mark and his family visited Mallorca (Spain), and Mark fell in love with this place. He was determined to live in Mallorca.
As you might have guessed, when Mark has decided something, there are not many things that could stop him. Soon after they moved to a nice farm house with another couple that they met in Mallorca.
This move, yet another time, changed everything…
Mark and his new housemates shared a common interest in plant medicine. They found a shaman serving Ayauhasca at a retreat. They sat with the shaman for 2 nights drinking Ayauhasca. Mark described his first journey :
“I found myself completely at peace, being completely at home.”
He loved it so much, and being an entrepreneur he is, Mark immediately thought there was an opportunity.
“Life is pretty simple on these retreats, I thought I could do this myself.”
After 6 months, Mark, Lynette and their daughter Livvie moved to their own beautiful villa down the road. Lynette envisioned a quiet life in their new home, but Mark had a different idea...
“We were about a week in the new house, before I thought we could hold Ayauhasca ceremonies in this house”
Mark shared the idea with Lynette and she said “No”, but he has already invited a shaman to live with them…
Chapter 10 - Hosting Ayahuasca Ceremonies
“Few days later this shaman arrived, and lived with us.”
Both Mark and Lynette got fully consumed with hosting Ayahuasca ceremonies.It was a crazy schedule - 4-5 nights a week. Over next 2 years they hosted over 2,000 people.
They held their ceremonies in a mesmerizing ceremony space.
Mark and Lynette split their responsibilities: one of them was hosting a ceremony and drinking medicine, while the other was taking care of their young daughter.
During that time in Mallorca, Mark drank Ayahuasca 100 times.
“Plant medicine helps you get outside of the egoic mind… the real question for me - Who am I ? I am not my profession, I am not my experience, not my values. I can be in a deepest medicine experience, where essentially it is just white light, but I still have a sense of a person being there. “
Chapter 11 - Living in a tiny house in Bali
After 2 years of non-stop serving plant medicine, Mark realized, that both in England and in Mallorca he feels like a tourist, but deep inside he wants to feel at home.At the same time, Lynette got interested in serving cacao and hosting cacao ceremonies. Bali was a perfect place.They decided to try Bali for 6 months. Mark booked one way ticket…In 2019 - Covid hit, and they decided to stay longer.
Mark, Lynette and Livvie have explored different parts of Bali, living in them for extended periods of time.At one point something shifted in Mark, he described it:
“I just got fed up living in Villas, it is this big extended holiday, I felt purposeless…”
Mark and Lynette have decided that they needed to get their own place in Bali.After some searching, the family bought an acre of land in the North of Bali and built a tiny house on this land.
“What is tiny ?” - I asked, having in mind that they lived in a 7 bedroom house before.
“6 by 6 meters. “ - Mark replied
I asked him:
- “How does it feel to live in this tiny house?”
- “Progressively for me, I made my life simpler and simpler, I have got little clothes and possessions, I wear sarongs, I have no shoes… The only time I feel how small it is, when I tell people how small it is… It does not feel small.” - he answered
Mark built a farm on his newly bought land. His current goal is to get self sustainable.They grow everything you can imagine, from coffee to tomatoes. Their lifestyle also changed.
“We are pretty remote, there are no supermarkets… We get food from a Balinese market”
I felt so inspired by this story, that after our interview, me and Anna decided to visit Mark and see it for ourselves.We took our scooters and drove to the North of Bali. Mark was right! His house is located in a pretty remote area. You drive on the main road, then you take a sharp right turn and it brings you to this tiny road, accessible mostly by scooter. It is true rural life there. You hear roosters, you see farmers with goats and what is more important - you feel at peace. Mark’s house is easily recognizable from the other houses in the area. While it is not big, the design stands out. It is modern, and well thought through. Later I found out that Mark designed the layout himself.
On the outside - their house has a mix of dark wood and metal. Inside there is a living room with mezzanine bedroom, beautiful bathroom with shower and a big kitchen (which is helpful when you cook most of your meals at home).
This house does not look small at all! I absolutely loved it!
Mark and Livvie gave us a tour of their garden. It is located on a steep hill. To the right of the house, there are rows of different vegetables. I could not believe that all of this was created just 5 months ago.Mark offered us to have some fish, which we cooked on the fire just outside the house.
It felt so peaceful!
Chapter 12 - Meaning of Life
Back to the interview…
Our conversation was going deep, and I had to ask my favourite question:
“What is the purpose of life? “
Mark shared that, in his opinion, at this point our purpose is not to go extinct.
Which was a very interesting perspective.
He added:
“It wouldn’t be a great loss universally, but it would be a shame, we walked a long violent road to get here.”
Then Mark sparked my curiosity by pointing out that universe is billions of years old, and if our race is measured in time, humanity would be a single second on this universal clock.
“I think purpose wise the universe wants to expand into itself, and I think we are small part of the wave of universal consciousness, we shouldn’t be carried away about our role in it…”
I often think about the fact that while universe is so old, and even humanity is about 300,000 years old, we just started rapidly progressing now, which to some level seems to me very strange.
I shared some theories that are floating around with Mark, for example the one, that humanity did evolve before, but we left (and who knows maybe it is a simulation), or that we are in this loop of evolving, then forgetting, then evolving again…
Mark pointed out that there were advanced societies before - Mayans, Egyptians.
“They used technology in another ways - farming, waterways. They were very advanced.”
Then Mark switched to talking about the current state of affairs and AI, that stuck with me:
“I think we need an ecosystem perspective on the consequences of our actions in life. If we keep working from a local ego based perspective, we just going to consume the bloody planet and turn it into concrete and villas and other stupid things. We are going to destroy a paradise.”
“Most of what we do is useless, it does not advance or sustain humanity.”
Mark shared, that maybe AI will be the technology that will get the right perspective, as long as we design it in the way that won’t be weaponized. I have noticed that when the conversation go deep, I always get back to the same few questions, that excite me.
I asked: “What do you think happens after we die ?“
The answer, was one of the best I heard so far…
“I don’t think you have capacity to perceive what happens after we die.”
Mark described the universe as the ocean, and us being drop from the ocean, that returns back to the ocean.
“What a beautiful analogy!” - I thought
Chapter 14 Close
We talked some more, then Mark ended our recording with a beautiful meditation prayer, which once again brought some more peace to our hearts.
I clicked stop recording, we put down the headphones. I looked Mark in the eyes to gather how he felt about the podcast. Mark looked down and quietly commented:
“I hope people can get at least some value from this”
His modesty did not surprise me, it just reiterate how special this interview was.
It is hard to sum up this experience. Once you hear somebody’s story, it often feels like you relive it with them. That being said, It is very hard to fanthom how can one person, being so young, can experience so much resistance and still remain happy and sane. All I can think of - people like Mark are special. To some degree I believe that it is not Mark who chose all of this, but life chose it for Mark. He did not chose to get rich and then loose it all - it is life who gave him this opportunity to grow. It is not Mark who chose plant medicine, it is plant medicine that chose Mark…
I rode on my scooter from the studio, it was getting dark, the mild wind was gently blowing in my face. So many thoughts were rushing through my head. I had a feeling that I just got downloaded a life worth of wisdom that I still need to process.
I am sure our journey has just begun…
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